Type II Front Suspension


Scobie

New member
Hi Everyone:
Last week I bent the hell out of my driver side tir rod (a big rock and my own stupidity). I had no trouble taking the whhel side off, but the other side is not budging. The Bently Manual says you need a special tool to press out the tie rod end but I cannot track down this tool. Does anybody know where I can get this tool or a good alternative. By the way it is a 1978 Bus (westy. Thanks for the help in advance.
Peace
Scobie
 
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Capt. Mike

Moderator
All of the official" tools in the shop manual are available from a VW dealer. But you'd probably have to take in the manual and show them what you want. Usually the service manager is the one with the tool catalog. They get them from VW, but additional units are available from a Company named Zelenda, a distributor for VW & European specialty tools. But before you go rushing off to outfit a shop from Zelenda, they are Expensive. Capital E!

Another supplier of many VW specialty tools is Schley, or S-P. Their tools are good quality and often considerable cheaper than either Zelenda or Snap-On. See the posts under the TOOLS forum.

A tie-rod end puller can be purchased from many tool dealers. They are also called 'pitman arm' pullers. There are two basic types. The one in the manual is the bearing puller style. I use a Snap-On. Instead of two arms, mine has a 3-sided 'cup' that slides over the arm. You then tighten the bolt until it breaks free.

The other style, more often called the tie-rod 'separater', is a forked wedge. They slide on either side between arm & ball joint and are driven with a hammer until the wedge pops the tie-rod loose. Be warned, these will invariable tear the boot -- OK if it's being replaced, but not if it's to be reused. This style is also available for an air impact hammer gun.

You may be able to get away without one. Since the tie-rod ball joint is tapered, just the tineist movement will break it free. Try a good penetrating oil like PB Blaster, then hit the side of the arm it's bolted into, not the tie-rod end itself. Often that's enough to allow the natural force of the pressure caused by the cone-shaped fit to pop it free. If you must tap on the threaded end, put the nut on flush with the end -- don't hit the threaded section itself or you'll peen it over. Again, it's not the actual driving motion you are trying to accomplish, it's the break free point.
 

Capt. Mike

Moderator
Transferred from another post to consolidate similar topics.

Upper torsion arm removal

Ludwig van Junior Member # 171 posted 07-17-2001 10:06 PM

1978 Westy - I'm in the middle of removing the right upper torsion arm so I can take it to the shop and have a new ball joint pressed in.

Everything's off except the arm itself, and the arm is under spring tension, so I'm a little nervous about pulling it off (how will I get it back on?) I removed the upper suspension stop, and raised the left side of the van so the wheel on that side is off the ground,but there's still spring tension on the arm.

Bentley has nothing to say on the subject. Anybody been there before?

Thanks in advance!
 

Capt. Mike

Moderator
Actually, the removal of torsion arms is well covered in the Bentley, 2-7.2.

IF you've disconnected all of the required items, there should be no "tension" on the arm except it's own weight. It is, however, held on with a set-screw that must be removed. The torsion bar is secured in the middle of it's span between wheels so any torsion should be between the arm and the center. Removing & installing torsion bars is covered in 2-7.5. That shouldn't be required.

The end of the torsion bar looks like the end of a sheave of spring leafs. They are tack-welded together. I have seen the weld broken so the leaves were no longer together, thus putting a friction tension on the arm. It came off with a little 'finesse' use of a big ball pien hammer, but getting it back on was a joy! I was finally able to hold the leaf ends together long enough to get the torsion arm started back on. The weld is for assembly, not torsion function.
 

Ludwig van

New member
To update and clarify my earlier post about removing the upper right torsion arm (78 Westy):
I meant that Bentley didn't mention any possibility of spring tension on the arm. Right now, the set screw and locknut are off, and the next step should be to remove the arm. I'm reluctant to try it because it's still being pressed firmly down against the stub that carries the upper stop. I'm worried that once the arm is off, the torsion bar will recoil and I'll be stuck with a major challenge getting the arm back onto it.
I should have mentioned a couple of other things earlier. One is that I r&r'd the lower left arm as part of a ball joint replacement before our vacation, and there was no spring tension against the lower arm. The other thing is that we heard/felt a bang a few hours into our trip, but couldn't see or otherwise detect any problems, so assumed we'd thrown a rock against the underside of the van. Now I'm wondering if the torsion bar has shifted, the set screw is damaged or... If I can't come up with any better ideas, I plan to remove the torsion bar for a look, Bentley is clear on that procedure. Before I start, I'm open to any other suggestions.

Thanks, Capt. for your earlier post on this one!
 

chefboyrdave

New member
hello there

I hope I have the right place to post this question? I have a 75 westy and when I am going around left corner or even going around a bend and give it some gas I notice a little bit of shaking in the front end. What could be the prob?

Thanks Dave :rolleyes:
 

Capt. Mike

Moderator
When a vibration is definately in the front during a turn to one side only, it usually is a worn part or attachment point. Likely candidates -- in the order I would consider them -- are front wheel bearings or adjustment; tie rod; steering damper; stabilizer bar; ball joint or shock. Inspecting and testing all of these are in the Bentley, Secion 2.

Last, but not necessarily least, when was the last full F&R alignment? Uneven castor, and to some extent camber & toe, can give a vibration during cornering. That should be showing up in tire wear.

I said if the vibration is "definately in the front" because a CV joint going can feel like it is in the front and manifests itself in noise or vibration during a corner. See the CV joint posts elsewhere on this site.
 
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vw-traveller

New member
Hi fellow VW-nuts,
I've got a similar problem when I do I full left turn. While driving and doing a full left turn it sounds like chains are rattleing under my '79 westy. I can't really figure out what it is and if anyone has experienced this problem I'd be gratefull for any advice
 

Capt. Mike

Moderator
What have y'all checked? Per Message Board Guidelines #3: "Do some preliminary checking first." Until you've eliminated the most obvious possibilities through the routine inspections and tests recommended in the shop manual, "shaking" and "rattling" are not enough information to go on.
 

Capt. Mike

Moderator
Transferred to consolidate same topics.

Rubber Boot Maintenance

Joel Junior Member # 113 posted 11-27-2001 06:50 PM

'78 Type II. Is it a good idea to apply lube grease to the ball joint rubber boots as a means to protect them, prevent them from splitting? Is a regular application of silicone spray better or preferred?
 
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Capt. Mike

Moderator
Reviews on treating boot rubber are mixed. None of the manufacturers recommend it, but that's not to say they dis-recommend it. Many of the treatments are long-term harmfull such as Armor-All. Silicone is probably the best bet and it is now available from 3M in a paste form.

However, grease can attract dirt and become an abrasive carrier as the joints work and folds in the boot rub against each other. The same would apply to the 3M silicone paste. The spray, rubbed in with excess wiped off, is probably the best compromise though I think you'll find most boots go from damage before they wear out.
 
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Capt. Mike

Moderator
Transferred to consolidate same topic.

CV Joints/Ball Joints?

gratefulben Junior Member # 2957 posted 03-28-2002 04:46 PM

Hey. I'm a relatively new owner of a 69' Westy. I recently had my steering box and drag link replaced, and my mechanic says that I need all four ball joints replaced. I'm not questioning his suggestion. He's a trustworthy guy. My question is two-fold. Is the ball joint the same as the CV joint? and........How many joints does my 69' have? I have heard that they only have rear joints, but the mechanic said all four. What gives?
 

Capt. Mike

Moderator
Refer to your Bentley (Message Board Guideline #2), Section 2-1, Fig 1-1. You will see their are two upper and two lower ball joints, items #2 & 12. This is what your suspension articulates on when turning side-to-side steering.

Now refer to Section 6-3.2, Fig 3-4. You have 4 CV joints, two each rear half-shaft that allows articulation of the rear suspension up & down in relation to the transaxle.

Only 4WD versions have CV joints in the front, an option N/A on the '69 Type II. We don't require the Bentley to be arbitrary. Many answers will just refer you to section and even the non-mechanic will benefit in understanding the repair procedures and talking with their shops & mechanics.
 

Capt. Mike

Moderator
Transferred to consolidate same subject.

pagantek Junior Member # 3912 posted 04-27-2002 12:18 AM

Nope. they are not the same beastie. I believe that the ball joints that were referenced by your Mechanic are the Stearing assy. tie-rod ball joints; two on each tie-rod; two Tie-rods The tie-rods are connected to the swing lever to the drag arm to the steering box.

Pagantek
 

vw-traveller

New member
A few posts up I explained a problem I had with a rattleing noise in left turns in the front axle:
Well I ound the problem, my caliper hadn't been torqued down enough and was at a small angle to the disk, after turning the scratched disk and replacing the pads the problem was fixed

Type 2 T2b driver
 

PeteWalker

New member
Howdy Y'all,
My '77 Westy has a clicking noise from the passenger side wheel area. It sort of sounds like a metal spring popping. It happens when I hit a bump on that side; maybe more when I corner. It started about about a week ago about once an hour, now it's about 4 times hourly. Today I replaced the wheel bearings (for $15 worth of parts and grease) just to ensure that wasn't it; it wasn't. Any suggestions?
Thanx, Pete
 

Capt. Mike

Moderator
See the posts on CV joints -- origin of noise is very nebulous and CV joints often sound like they're in the front.

Type II front suspension is a torsion bar design so it has NO springs. However a broken leaf in the inner torsion bar itself could 'pop'. But first check all your articulating points: ie rods; stabilizer bar, ball joints and shocks. The steering damper and relay lever assembly could also make noise. Bentley 2-1, Fig 1-1.
 

ronwolffjr

New member
1) Front end is fine, did all necessary adjustments.

2) Bentley and shop confirmed this.

Can someone help with some suggestions on how to reduce the effects of a windy day? (i.e. being blown into another lane)

I would like to keep the 1976 Westy as original as possible, so really not interested in lowering it.

Thanks.

Ron Wolff
'76 Westy
'78 SB Conv
'74 SB Auto-stick
'78 Westy Auto
 

Capt. Mike

Moderator
Not withstanding the 'usual' amount from driving a breadbox shaped vehicle, most wind effect is caused by loose steering, worn shocks, worn bushings, loose or missing sway bar and, the most common of all -- TIRES! Improper tires, improper inflation and sometimes just a persnickety brand seem to be the most prevalent wind cause of wind wander. Nothing will stop some feel or sway of 70-mph 18-wheeler passing 3' away, but when everything is right, the Type II's were quite stable.

Reasonable speed presumed! The breadbox aerodynamics take over if you want to push it 65 or 70 mph.
 

jeanO

New member
Westy 79. When driving over dips and bumps in the road that cause the front suspension to compress, a deep creeking noise comes from the front end somewhere under the drivers seat. My question is could this be due to a faulty axle beam? How can one know if the axle beams are beaking down?
ps I have not bought this vehicle yet. this happened during a recent test-drive. How can I find out if the axle beams are healthy or not?

thanks
 

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