FI Conversions -- incl. FI from & to carbs


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cwaffen

Guest
Help - I have a 74 Westy and just underwent a major engine rebuild on my origional 1700cc (82Kmi). Everything works great, but the dual carbs are almost dead. I burn gas like its my job, stall at lights, and lose power periodically on the highway. All signs point to the carbs and they have been adjusted ubtil they can be adjusted no better.

Bus is mint and my mechanic is recommending I get a conversion kit that converts two carbs to one. I cannot find a source for such a kit. Any ideas/recommendations, sources?

Thanks
- reply to 52696@now-online.com
Chad in Ohio
 

Capt. Mike

Moderator
The dual carb set-up on a '74 was excellent and a reduction to a single carb is a giant step backwards. Stick with the duals.

Carbs can be restored -- NOT just some rebuild with just kit parts -- but total refurbishing back to OE specs. Not cheaply but probably no worse than new aftermarket substitute carb kits. There are some other dual carb conversions. I believe the one by Weber has a good reputation.

The following is an antique carb restorer used by one of the top concourse restoration shops in the country. I haven't used him personally, but have seen their work (and awards) so their recommendations are worth checking out. This is if you want your originals restored to "as left factory" condition.

The Old Carb Doctor
Jeff Dreibus, Owner
Rt. 3 Box 338
Durcilla Church Dr.
Nebo, NC 28761
1-800-945-CARB
 

CGOTTS

New member
I have to agree with Capt. Mike - the original Solex dual carbs were a good setup. One of the biggest problems that these carbs have, and for the reason you are having so much trouble has to do with the throttle shaft bushings. My 74 had the same problem until I had the bushings replaced. The reason for the problems is related to vacuum leaking past these bushings. A carburetor requires a certain amount of air going down the venturi to draw in X-amount of fuel in the process. With the bushing being worn, it bypasses the normal path and now problems arise. Nice thing about these solex carbs are that the throttle bodies are removable from the carb and you can either purchase new bodies, thus solving this problem, or have a good machine shop cut you some brass bushings and installed, honed and greased to new specs. In regards to a single carb - Weber makes a 32/36 DGV progressive carb kit for your bus, but one big problem - it wants to stick up a little higher than the engine deck lid, with the air filter on. If you can afford it, stay with dual carbs, perhaps a set of Kadrons, or better yet Webers. A good carb sync also is a big help to prevent stalling, lack of power, fuel consumption, etc. Good luck and hope this helps. CGOTTS
 

Capt. Mike

Moderator
Transferred from another forum to consoslidate similar subjects.

Fuel inj to carb

paul, Junior Member, 05-10-2001 09:15 PM

I have two buses. One in Hawaii, 79 automatic that was previously switched over to Carb. My westy in New Jersey is a 78 fuel injection that is always giving me trouble. I am happy with the performance on the 79 carb and I wanna switch over my 78 westy this summer. What are some pro's and con's to this? Where can I get and what kind of carb do I get? I took many photos of the 79 engine and I think I can make the switch. I heard there is a kit. Can you give me some answers.
 

Capt. Mike

Moderator
The comments above about stepping back in time from the dual carb versions of the early boxer engine to single repeats in changing back from FI to carbs. GIANT step backwards. Can it be done? Yes [The '78 & '79 engines were identical]. Will the bus still run? Yes. But are the gains -- if any -- worth it. No.

FI is more reliable (I know that seems hard to believe but compared to running right vs. just running.) It offers far better fuel efficiency, almost always more power & torque per given load state, usually better mileage, and always smoother running. The AFC system on that model was as good and reliable as anything of that era.

If it's not running right or always giving trouble, the problem is not in the system design, but in the mechanics or operation. I'm not trying to be cruel but half the mechanics don't understand FI and aren't willing to learn. If you know them, they are not that hard to diagnose and set-up. Too many abandon just because they can't tune it by ear with a screwdriver and pair of pliers anymore.

There are a number of books independent of the Bentley that go over the FI systems in more detail. Bosch, the manufacturer, puts out their own. Try Auto Sports Gallery (post under suppliers) as I think I saw the Bosch FI manual in their rack last time I was by. However the FI supplement in the back of the Bentley is pretty good and there is a troubleshooting chart posted on my pic post site linked from the home page.

Don't forget resale value. You will ultimately decrease it by the amount to fix or buy a new FI and put it back on unless it's already too far gone to restore.
 
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Capt. Mike

Moderator
Transferred from other posts to consolidate similar topics.

Carburetor selection

bobrien, Junior Member # 36 posted 05-24-2000 05:37 PM

I just received my long block from the rebuilders. I had bigger pistons, making it a 1914 engine, with a high performance cam. I need help with the carburetor selection. I am considering a webber progressive, dual Kadrons. I am not too sure about the dual webbers due to the $ and hearing about a flat spot. The engine will be going into a 67 camper, I am looking for power to get up the Colorado mountain passes.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.

CGOTTS Member # 168 posted 07-13-2000 10:09 PM

Deciding on the type of carb you want can be a big deal - I have had both, Kadrons, a Weber Progressive, Baby Webers, etc. Two things to consider - a dual carb system, once sync'd properly can be just as nice and get just as good a gas mileage as a single. A dual carb system can also come on faster, more power due to the fact the carbs are just a hair away from the intake valves, thus the carbs are closer, and response is quite good. The single is nice as well due to the fact it only moves one throttle arm - and can be very fuel efficent, if not on the secondary all the time. So the chose has to be made - which one?!!???? Price is the factor for most of us, if we could afford the Webers, most of us would get them. But since we can't, baby webers are more affordable. Or even the Kadron, copy of a weber. Kadrons are a good carb setup - they are currently still producing them in Brazil and a nice addition for power and economy. Unfortunately, their quality control of venturi's, air & fuel jets, etc., are not as closely monitored as the Webers are. The closer the tolerances, the better the fuel mixture and operation becomes. Keep in mind, a weber can be a lousy setup if the jets, air correction jets, idle jets are not correct. Most carbs come with basic jet setups, of which most of them are not setup for a bigger engine like yours. I guess before I get to far, I would probably go duals on your engine, and a single for a smaller engine like an 1835 or less. A single can be setup to run a 1914, but why build a big engine and use a not so big carb - so go the duals. Back to the main subject - plan on purchasing a few spare air correction & main fuel jets - till you get the carbs setup correctly. Once you have that done, you'll be glad you have duals. Another thing to consider is what climate you live in - is it cold most of the year, or warm? If cold, then duals have a tendency to ice up more, where as a single might do better in the long run. Also, most problems that people have with duals & single progressives is they are running to much fuel pressure into them. A fuel pressure regulator is highly recommended, due to the fact a mechanical pump puts out about 14 psi, and the carbs only need about 2.5 to 4 psi. Not sure if this helps answer you question, but at least it may give you some thoughts to consider. I run a Weber progressive on my 1776 Baja Pre-runner, and get about 30 miles to the gallon on the freeway, plus still have excellant power when I need it. So flip a coin and hope it lands on the carb you want. Take care and good luck. CGOTTS

Weber carburettors and their operation

Elliot, Junior Member # 271 posted 08-13-2000 03:02 PM

I have just bought a '71 bay camper and am in the process of correcting its faults....the most obvious is a weber carb mounted on a scat manifold, the carb sits way to high for the cable to pull it fully open, the arm of the carb is rotating clockwise and is heading upwards in order to open the second choke - so it never opens. The only solution i can see is to make a longer arm - does anyone know of this problem and if there is a modification I can just buy ?

CGOTTS Member # 168 posted 08-21-2000 10:57 PM

Yes, as a matter of fact there is an item you can purchase that will help with this problem. I currently run a Weber Progressive carb on my Baja Bug, of which I had a similar problem. Due to the fact the carb is a bit bigger, two barrels, it has to sit a little more away from the fan shroud. Mr Bug Products, or Bugpack, make a throttle cable extension which is slipped over the original throttle cable and lock on to it with an allen screw. Once this is on, it will give you about an inch or so more of cable length, and work nicely on the throttle arm. So don't destroy the original throttle arm on the carb, or you will have an even harder time getting it to work. Cost of the extension is about $4.00. Hope this helps and good luck.

[ 06-06-2001: Message edited by: Capt. Mike ]
 

Capt. Mike

Moderator
Transferred to consolidate same subject.

FI vanagon conversion

Beast Junior Member # 2747 posted 11-21-2001 09:54 AM

Swapping later FI system to earlier style --
I currently have a complete FI system from an aircooled vanagon with airbox and everything.

I am curious if it's possible to replace the digijet system with this simple, reliable system. I have never heard of this being done before. Is there something that I have overlooked -- or would this be a viable swap.
 

Capt. Mike

Moderator
I haven't heard of anyone doing it either, but it causes you to ask the question WHY do you want to step back in time, other than that you have a free one, to an older, less efficient system?

I don't think you will find significant difference in reliability between the digijet & AFC systems. Both are 'analog' in that they are not digital like the digifant system.

And how would you reconcile the difference in CPUs to two different engine designs? Digijet adds the ability to monitor coolant temperature and other factors not included in the older AFC system. An above post recommends a source of Bosch FI books for further reference.
 

Capt. Mike

Moderator
Mike Goodchild Member posted May 16, 2002 08:57 PM

Hello again gents. Well, I think I have found the engine that will fit my 80 westy, it is an 82, but there is a carburated engine in it. Other than the top, she looks identical. This remanufacture sticker(s) are on the top as well. Does this mean it has an older style engine in it? Can I call somewhere and find out anything with this number? The original owners are long gone to Alberta, there is a sticker from Autobahn Motors in London Ontario.

I couldn't do a compression test on her to see how the cylinders might be, ab bit of a crap shoot, the guy wants 500 for the whole unit, and I need many other parts for my van like a heater cable, hub cap, front emblem, I think I just listed 500 without the engine. Without the comp test, how can one evaluate? It hasn't held much oil , was driven to where it lies, the dipstick smelt of gas, and had a drop on the end indicating it was really low, but still had some in it.

Thanks in advance, any help is greatly appreciated.

BTW is there a quick way to tell the size of the engine, ie 2.0 litre, 1.9 etc...

bluewest

Capt. Mike
 

Capt. Mike

Moderator
All 1980-1983 N. American air-cooled engines were 2.0 liters with engine code CV. See your Bentley shop manual pages 2 & 2a. If you have found an '82 with carbs it was an aftermarket conversion or a gray-market car from some other country. Unfortunately many, who did not understand FI, did backwards retrofit to carbs. Since they butchered the fuel system, there's almost no way to tell what's inside except by disassembly. Dumb but if a pure factory reman, the engine is the same so you should be able to refit it into your '80 using your original FI.

Read the rest of the boards, especially GETTING A WESTY and ENGINE as to ideas for checking the condition.

See Site Guideline #9 regarding value.

Capt. Mike
 

Capt. Mike

Moderator
Transferred to consolidate similar topics.

76Heat Wagen Super Member posted March 28, 2004 03:46 PM

Hi VW Folks -

I was hoping for an opinion on this conversion, or if someone had done it. Here it is:

I have a 1971 Westfalia, with dual port 1776. No desire to push the cc's any harder. For 15 years, I have been a HUGE fan of the bug AFC fuel injection system used from 1974 1/2 on. The beetle FI system is very similar to the 1975 on bus, but with some electronic modifications as well as retrofitting to accomodate a pancake type engine.

Personally, I find the parts easy to diagnose, and with proper maintenance, they run exceptional.

So here it goes: I am in the process of fuel injecting the 1776 upright with a 1977 beetle fuel injection system. Have all the proper heat exchangers, tin, manifolds, muffler, new injectors, harness..bla bla. (in other words, parts are no issue).

Once complete, I plan to put it in the 1971 bus. The only issue I am facing now is to find a gas tank with another hose outlet to allow unused fuel to return to the tank.

a) any suggestions? Will a later FI model tank work in a 71?

b) any opinions/experience on this?

Thanks for taking the time to read!

Ron Wolff
'76 Westy
'78 SB Conv
'74 SB Auto-stick
'78 Westy Auto
 

ronwolffjr

New member
UPDATE:

The 1971 VW Camper (dual port 1600 Engine) has been sucessfully running for about 1 year with AFC fuel injection. (The identical system on USA 1975-1979 Beetles)

It works excellent so far with no complaints. I'm actually considering adding A/C to it.

Aside from that, the Westy is completely stock. (well, except for the "FUEL INJECTION" insignia I had to put on the rear deck lid.

If anyone would like pictures or further information, let me know!
 

captnbilly

New member
anyone considering FI conversions or abandoning FI for the cost of repair/replace/lack of parts should take a look at the MegaSquirt site and tbone's installation: see FI site here at electrical for my post, this is rapidly developing, grass roots technology. Granted, can be daunting for non-techies at first but once you grasp the mapping concept and that most of the tech stuff is about getting clean, accurate signals to the controller from various sensors the lite bulb will go on.

Transferred to consolidate same topic.

captnbilly
Junior Member
Posted April 30, 2006 04:26 AM
I am bringing to the attention of the members what appears to me a break thru for those of us who stick with FI for its obvious advantages. Called the "MegaSquirt", for those willing to venture into tech territory I think this is a huge leap forward and way cheaper if you have to start replacing airboxes, ECU's, thermoswitches, etc. Here's the site for a T2 demo installation well documented: http:tbone2091.tripod.com/megasquirt/ Anyone else heard of this technology? If your interested, go to the megasquirt site, you would be amazed at this sort of shade tree, grass roots movement and the number of apparently smart volunters debugging/developing applications for just about anything that runs on the Otto cycle. Absent any bad news, my L-Jet is on its way out
 

bobthebuilder

New member
Injector conversion to Carbureted 1984 westy.

I have a 1984 Westfalia,1900 injected.Other people and vw techs in our area,(Nova Scotia Canada)are converting to carbs from injectors when their injected system starts giving them problem$,it seems to work well ,very simple and better fuel economy,not near as expensive to do as fixing the old injectors and computer$.Only problem is they are using a type 3 progressive webber kit and cutting down the intake pipes to fit under the deck of the westy,I was wondering if anyone knew of a kit similar that does not need to be modified.I have been told that in the U.S. due to exhaust gas inspections this cannot be done which is odd because everyone who does it here is CLAIMING? there is better fuel economy which should mean better emissions,Anyone out there have any Ideas? Thanks in advance!
Cheers Bob

[11/4/10 Moderator Note: See post #5, page one this forum (Guideline #4).]
 
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C

cheeskwew

Guest
FI Conversions incl FI from to carbs

Tried searching but nothing really answered my question, are the timing marks on a VE pump different from pump to pump regarding application? The AG pump Im installing on my 93 has a timing mark on the outside mounting ear is much further down away from engine compared to my factory IP. Are these added to a finished engine after its been timed with a dial indicator? Thanks.
-Jesse

By the way, what car auctions services do you know? I recently found http://www.carfrom.us car auction. I found good pre-owned FORD F150 2008
resizer
resizer
. I'm glad that i got vin history report before buying. It had all over damage. Be protected and consistently run free car report before buying.
 

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