Charger/Converter questions


Don Bowman

New member
My charger/converter transformer blows its internal fuses. The transformer is made by Philips (radio group??)

The fridge is not on during this.

When charging (before the fuse blows), the battery charge indicator shows in the middle
of the charge zone at the upper right.

When I start the charging, the sound of the transformer alters, presumably because of the load.

What could cause this behaviour? It seems obvious they don't expect this fuse to blow based on its inconvenient location :)
 
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Capt. Mike

Moderator
:( What year, what model? Guideline #3! Assuming a factory Type II . . .

I'm going to ask the obvious first. Have you checked the battery? A bad battery, shorted cell, or bad ground could be causing an overload.

The wiring diagram is posted in my pics site linked from the home page. Look under the "technical diagrams folder". That might help your trouble-shooting.

Typically, rechargers use a slow-blow fuse or buffer so they don't blow with that initial surge when starting to recharge a very dead battery.

Of course a bad transformer coil within the converter will give you the same symptoms, especially if it's breaking down when it gets hot, similar to a bad ignition coil.

The original supplier was MagneTek, B-W Division; 721 N. Webster St.; Kokomo, IN 46901. That's not to say they didn't use Phillips transformers inside.

If you have another brand, then I'd question originality, which could also be the problem if not designed for the VW's load. Not too long ago, the OE converters were still available from VW -- without the stigma of low cost -- and MagneTek direct at very reasonable prices, but that could change hourly. MagneTek direct's had a slightly different fuse arrangement as far as what was inside the converter itself -- but otherwise installed in my '90 Vanagon as in your P-27.
 
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eek

New member
Greetings,
Rather than start a new topic, I'll tag a tangent on to this one as it is remotely related. I recently bought a fridge for our 78 westfalia, and subsequently bought the 110/12 power converter and panel with timer, etc, that seems to be giving Don some trouble. I won't be installing the power supply for awhile, but was hoping someone could give me some guidance as to where the components are mounted. The 78 without the fridge already has the breaker panel, but I was wondering where original location is for the "control panel", the converter, and the second battery. Also, does anyone have a part number for the battery cut off relay as shown in your wiring diagram link? A picture of the panel and rectifier would be worth a thousand words of explanation. Other than the battery cut off relay, is there anything else I will need? Here is link to ebay of what I bought, and I already have the fridge. Thanks in advance for any help offered.
 
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Capt. Mike

Moderator
The 2nd battery in a Type II P27 was in the engine compartment on the left side. If not equipped, you will probably have to do some drill work, either to weld in a battery hold-down nut or install a threaded insert. In the one conversion I did, I chose the latter and just made a small 'filler' wedge for the battery hold-down so the bolt could be vertical instead of at the angle you see on the right side battery.

The relay mounts just left & above of the engine lid on the opening's frame with a sheet-metal screw. The heavy wire (about 8 gauge) from the main battery to the relay and then the auxiliary battery runs across the top & above the engine opening.

Don't get hung up on the part number of a relay -- they change frequently. You want a standard, relay per the relay diagram in the Bentley electrical introduction pages but with DUAL #87 terminals, preferably with a mounting tab built in. Hella's relay P/N 87118 is 30a with dual 87 contacts and should work fine. This style of relay is common with fog & driving light kits. Hella sources are listed under SUPPLIERS.

SWF made one under VW P/N 211 963-141 but it doesn't use the Hella #'s so you'd have to wire per the diagram on the side of the relay. That relay was used in Type II's for the heater blower -- check a junk yard; it was located right next to the blower mount.

The control panel mounted into the wall panel just left of the galley and directly over the AC/DC fridge. There are good pictures in the camper manual for your model. I can't comment on your "kit"; the ebay link is dead so please go back and edit it out of your post.

The converter went under the rear seat on the left side. Late Type II campers came with a wooden box cover over there to protect it whether equipped or not. This is behind the heat outlet on the front panel of the seat box.
 
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alexzee7

New member
i have a 1978 wessy with the fridge and charger. we tried the charger for the first time and seemed to have blown something. when the charging was complete the fridge did not work with city power even when their was still power to the bus, but it did work with battery power. i took the panel off and when i did that the fridge did not work for either. what would have caused this and where are the fuses for the fride and charger located. thanks alex
 

Capt. Mike

Moderator
Wiring for the late Type II AC converters is available from the out-of-print Repair Manual Type 2, Bentley on CD (see SUPPLIERS forum) and same is posted on the Tech Drawings link on the home page of this site.
 

otiswesty

New member
I have the Repair Manual Type 2 and am putting a 2nd battery system in my stadard 78 Westy. I was wondering if I should use the original convertor or if a new RV store model would be more efficient.
 

Capt. Mike

Moderator
The "original" from the '75 era was still the model in production into the 90's. It's efficency & reliability were superb. There may be slightly lighter and smaller units available now but I don't see a major gain. I put that unit in a '90 and it's still going strong in 2004.

If I had a gripe of the P27 era converters was the lack of an automatic taper & shut-off of the battery charger mode, but in real time use, it was not an issue -- we were mostly wanting a full charge rate for a pretty near dead battery until the vehicle was driven again to top-off.
 

Hurbshankin

New member
I just signed on as a member last week. I've acquired a 78 v-dub westy with the charger/converter. My question is, how much wattage is the converter rated for, I don't want to overload it.

Josh Shannon

I have another question about the converter. I've been going through the whole system, charger (replaced relay with new Hella dual batterey dealy) and such. I've gotten the aux battery to charge from both city and alternator power, I get 110 volts ac at the receptacle with city power switched on, once I swithc to battery power I get nothing out of the receptacle. I've checked all fuses I'm aware of, relay, inline from battery and control panel, is there a fuse I missed?

Josh Shannon
 
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dunlop

New member
Hi
I just purchased a 97 eurovan and Iam not sure the power converter is working,
When I have the shore line on does the 110 go throught the converter to 12 volt and on to the coach battery and then to the lights furnace etc., or is there a separate 12 volt line to the lights furnace etc. to give immediate results even when the coach battery is low while it is also charging up the coach battery?

The reason I am suspisious is,while the battery is somewhat low now, when I plug in the shoreline I don`t get a response like a override to the lights etc., the 110 outlets all work in the cabin area, the 110 fuse is ok.

Hope I posted this question in the correct place
Jack
 

Capt. Mike

Moderator
See the wiring diagrams in the Bentley X167 - X172. The 110v AC recepticals are fed direct from the shore power line; it also feeds the Battery Charger (A10, X169) so battery charging is not related to the recepticles. Start your trace & diagnosis there. Ssuggest you read your owner manual/camper supplement carefully -- the older Type II chargers had to be manually activated and none of the lights or vehicle accessories worked off the AC, only the battery.
 

philipwoodward

New member
hi
i have just bought a 1077 westy. it was imported from california. there is an electicity hook up point on the passenger side. it is a us style socket. does anyone know where i can buy an adatper for use in the uk/europe. also, can i simply plug in to the mains or is some modification required?

help appreciated
 

Capt. Mike

Moderator
IF a US 1977 CA Westy, it is probably a P-27. Their shore power connection is for 110vAC 60 cyle. The wiring diagram is posted on this site. It ONLY powers two things, the rectifier, which turns 115vAC into 12vDC to run the fridge & auxiliary battery recharger; that same 115vAC runs directly to the AC outlets in the cabin. The water pump and lights are fed from the vehicles main circuit.

Wales is 230vAC 50 cycle. Thus you will need a transformer as well as appropriate plug adaptors. The transformer will step 230vAC down to 115vAC, but not change the cycles. Thus UK-designed 50 cycle appliances may have problems. Most don't matter, especially things like heating & lights, but it is important in electronic goods. Since the fridge is basically a DC heater, it should work fine.

You need to size the transformer to feed the shore power outlet for the correct amperage. Since the input circuit breaker #S1 is 15 amp, that should be adequate.

You could change the rectifier (converter) to a 230v unit and AC outlets to 230vAC and just use the adaptor on the shore power extension cord. It's probably not worth changing the side receptical since that passes through he body. The rectifiers are pretty straight forward generic.

You might also look at sticking with the transformer and using a 12vDC/230vAC inverter if you use cycle-sensative electronics. It would be very easy to add a 12vDC cigarette lighter socket near the AC outlet to have both available. See the "Inverter" topic in WESTY GADGETS.
 

Capt. Mike

Moderator
Transferred to consolidate same topic.

mel22b Junior Member Posted May 04, 2006 07:43 AM

I just bought a 92 eurovan westy and last night I plugged it in to charge the second battery and see if the system was working. I turned the switch on behind the drivers seat and the info pannel on the roof showed a plug in indicator. I waited about 5 minutes and all seemed well so I went for a quick bite to eat. I came back about 20 minutes later and the inside of the van was filled with smoke. I thought, 'this is my first westy and I dont know a ton, but that cant be good'. I ran around and pulled the plug.
I was wondering if anyone has any ideas what went wrong. I pulled the 120v panel and took a look at the second battery and there wasnt any damage. However the 120v panel was a bit warm. I figured due to the amount of smoke and the new scent the interior has, that I should have seen something melted. Thanks in advance for any help you can lend.

Also, thanks for all the info you have already given me without knowin' it.
 

Capt. Mike

Moderator
Go to your Bentley wiring diagrams pages X168 - X172. Start the trace. AC power comes in through fuse S59. Since it didn't blow, it means you don't have a short between it and the Charger.

If the batteries showed no distress, it probably means the didn't get any voltage, or if they did, it was the correct 12vDC.

In diagram X169, you'll see the 12vDC output feeds 4 different circuits (22, 24-26). You need to perform proper diagnostics on these circuits with a volt-ohm meter. It's possible you have a short in one of these circuits, such as the water pump, that is causing the overload. Smoke usually indicates a short and you should now have sufficient damage to the wiring to locate it.

It is, of course, possible the charger itself is defective. You can test it by disconnecting the 12vDC output leads and using a volt-ohm meter on the terminals. Chargers are transformers; their ouput is a function of the load. High loads -- defective appliance or short -- will cause them to try to supply the power they think is needed and thus overload. In those cases, the problem is not the charger, but the load downstream.
 

mel22b

New member
Thanks for the info. I have had to wash the entire interior down and wash the curtains in an attempt to remove the smell. I think I may have to get 10 air freshners in there.
I think there must be some damage in the line somewhere, considering the smoke.
Just not in the electical box, at the 2nd battery or on the exterior cord. The search will continue next week.
 

Capt. Mike

Moderator
Westfalia RV Power Converter - Looking for installation instructions

mike
user_offline.gif
Junior Member


This unit is out of a Eurovan camper and I want to install it into my vanagon. Does anybody know where I can find a schematic or do you know what the connections are in the picture. I am not sure what S+ and S- do.
Here is a link to the power converter I am using: http://www.busdepot.com/details.jsp?...ber=701070519C

philipsrvpowerconverterow3.jpg
 
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Capt. Mike

Moderator
The wiring diagram for the Eurovan's Charger is in the Eurovan Bentley manual, diagram X169 but you'll probably need digrams X168-X171 for the hook-ups and routing. The diagram for the factory Type II P27 converter & charger is in the site's Tech Drawings. It appears the AC 3-wire input is the same as a computer female plug so you can cut of the male end and connect them to your 110AC receptical terminals. VW did not use those terminal designators; they used a 6-pin multi-plug to hook output to the factory harness. Bus Depot also lists it for models I know did not use it, so I'd question as to whether this unit is true factory or just another model from the same manufacturer, if that. (See the Bus Depot topic in PARTS).

Below is my wiring diagram for installing the factory OEM Type II P27 converter/charger into a Vanagon. Since you don't have the battery charging control of the Eurvan, you'll need to install a timer or device to prevent overcharging. You also don't have the Camper Central Electronics Display, so you'll probably want to install a battery condition gauge, or some other means to measure battery voltage.

FYI: My cost back in '90 for the OEM converter, timer, S&H and all wiring & installation hardware was $178. I bought my converter direct from the US manufacturer and it came with instructions.
 

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bustagrill

New member
Electrical converter (12v/110v) for 1993 Westfalia

I need to replace the converter on my 1993 Westy, but Volkswagen doesn't make them anymore and I'm having trouble finding a used one. Does anyone know if they are repairable, or have any suggestions on an aftermarket converter?
 
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