Crankcase/block -- incl. pistons and crankshaft

[limited]

I'm in the middle of rebuilding a 2.0 air cooler out of a 1980 Westy. Once the crank, rods and flywheel are out of the machine shop, I'm going to put it all together. My question is what to use as a case seal. The parts man at the dealer didn't have or recommend anything, but thought regular "silicon" was probably what the mechanics use. I know that what the mechanics originally used was not "silicon" but something else. Is there a preferred type of case sealer or a manufacturer/vendor that garage/shade-tree mechanic can easily obtain and use? Any help, hints, recommendations are appreciated.

[Capt. Mike]

The original was NOT silicone and I don't recommend it because one, it will squeeze a bead up into the engine case; and two, that bead can tear off and come adrift, perhaps blocking an oil channel.

I use the copper shellac style. I believe the original brand had an Indian Head logo, or something like that. My current can is Permatex "Super 300" P/N 83H. I understand a comparable product is in 3M's catalog as well. These are available at the bigger parts stores.

What you get is a can that holds about 4 oz. and has a built in dauber or brush in the lid. It will stay tacky for half-hour or so to allow assembly, but then reaches a dry-to-the-touch seal. It seems to fill the inevitable small voids with a stable compound that expands & contracts as a metal, something that many gasket materials can't handle. They rely on keeping elasticity, which we know eventually fails.

I'm sure VW has some special VW part number stuff, and you might check with your dealer (Service dept. list of chemical products -- not in the parts fiche). In the greater scheme of things in a major rebuild, what's their $10 per can vs. the parts store's $5?


Update 10/30/07: When I rebuilt the Type I 1500cc on my antique VW Bug, the machine shop that did the case check, cylinder hone & heads, recommended Permatex Super 300, Mfg. P/N 83H. It came in a small bottle with applicator and is a 'form-a-gasket' sealer specifically for metal-to-metal applications and duplicates the factory application. The engine has about 300 miles in 6 months with no case leaks.

[limited]

Thank you for the information. It is very helpful.

I was surprised when the dealer (parts guy) told me that they didn't "show anything" for that application. I wanted to use original volkswagen manufacturer case sealer because I firmly believe that they know exactly what works best for their engines and because sealing is so critical. Also, their sealer appeared to have worked exceptionally well.

I definitely would have gladly paid three times the cost over regular consumer product sealers for what Volkswagen uses. Like you said, in the overall cost, the $10 neighborhood is really not that much.

Thanks again.


[This message has been edited by limited (edited 09-04-2000).]

[Capt. Mike]

Transferred from other posts to consolidate similar topics.

Head bolts coming loose

giebs Junior Member # 395 posted 09-28-2000 11:08 AM

I have an 82 Westy. Recently (after driving my Westy over a mountain pass) I heard a pulsating "peep" noise from the engine. After taking it to a VW repair shop they found the Head Bolts had come lose and had let the Head Gasket get damaged in the process. They charged me $330 to fix it and I was on my way. A week later I began to hear the same sound again and lose power. I took the VW back to them and they told me the bolts had come loose again. They were stunned and shocked. They said the bolts shouldn't come lose for thousands of miles. After looking at the engine further they noticed a previous "rebuild" of the heads and other things. They are stumpped as to why the bolts may be coming lose and figure it is something else entirely, but not sure what is the cause. My options are to have them dig further, perhaps a new head is needed ($600) or to lock tight the bolts and pray. Any insight into this one?
Thanks for the help.

Capt. Mike Moderator Member # 11 posted 09-28-2000 07:53 PM

We'll start off with the premise head bolts should NEVER come loose! Although it was common in days past to have the head bolt torque checked a certain time after new or after a rebuild, even that had been dropped by your model.

Head BOLTS is a misnomer; there are none. The heads are attached by NUTS to studs that are embedded in the case. Unfortunately, that is probably your problem. For some reason, the STUDS are working loose. This can happen from poor workmanship or components during assembly, or a case that has been previous worn &/or damaged. There are cures, but they are close to an engine overhaul.

The engine must be removed, then heads & cylinders. The studs can then be replaced, oversized, or case drilled & rethreaded with inerts as the case condition warrants. At this stage of disassembly, one would then have to consider a more in-depth overhaul or going to a factory reman engine if the engine is also high mileage or showing other symptoms.

That there was a previous rebuild of the heads is not the cause. It just wasn't caught & corrected at the time. Replacing them is not the cure. Once the studs start working out they will continue to do so until there is a major engine failure.

giebs Junior Member # 395 posted 09-29-2000 09:04 PM

Mike,

Thanks for the quick response on my inquiry. As I am still figuring out things with my ailing Westy . . .. Although it makes sence to stick with another VW engine as replacement my mechanic told me I would need to find my own engine as their current suppliers of rebuilds are getting pretty sloppy in their workmanship. Just want to know what you think.

Thanks,

Michael

[Deleted questions about engine swap -- belongs on Conversions forum]

Capt. Mike Moderator Member # 11 posted 09-29-2000 09:52 PM

Where do these mechanics come up with that sort of crap?

VW still makes a factory reman for that vehicle and it is, for all practical purposes, a NEW engine with new VW warranty and the same quality as the original engine that came in the car. There are also other quality rebuilders, but I admit there are an equal number of hack wrench turners as well. But when someone tells you something so blatently false as that, I'd find a new mechanic. Is this the same one that didn't diagnose & fix the "head bolts" right the first time?

[RE: Engine swap; post on the Engine Conversions forum. And no I DON'T recommend the Suburu swap; have heard nothing good and lots bad. See Message Board Guidelines, especially item #1.]

Gas in engine oil

josh Junior Member # 457 posted 01-04-2001 01:08 AM

I recently purchased a new 68 - 72 1600 longblock for my 70 westy and after three hundred miles I pulled the oil to check and there is gas in the oil. It smells of gas and is real milky not to mention their is an extra quart or so from somewhere. I noticed the fuel pump appears to be leaking around the base so I assume the fuel pump has blown. What causes this? this is the second pump I have gone through in 4 months (on separate engines) Is this a recurring problem? Do these things happen often? I am getting kind of discouraged because I have done nothing really but dump money into this. I replace the entire engine and all the ancillaries and within a week it blew out the plug in the center shaft of the carburetor(PIC 30) and now this. Is there something wrong with the fuel system maybe? and I have been having problems with the car running as well although right now it is about 10 degrees. but if I stop at a stoplight and let it idle it dies. I haven't got around to adjusting the idle yet but since I seemed to have alot of fuel related problems here I thought I would include the symptom. Any Ideas? Thanks for any help.

Capt. Mike Moderator Member # 11 posted 01-04-2001 08:18 AM

The fuel pump on the a '68-70 model is straight mechanical, operating by a pushrod that rides on a cam in the engine. The pushrod operates a rocker arm, which in turn cycles the diaphragm plate to pump the fuel. There is an excellent exploded diagram of the pump in the Bentley, Section 3-4.3, Fig. 4-3.

The diaphragm is spring loaded with a flexible seal. If that seal fails, gas can work its way back down the pushrod tube to the engine. Continued use will quickly ruin the engine as the gas causes a loss of lubrication. 300 miles may already be too late!

You didn't mention your source of "new" engine, and whether it included a new fuel pump. Fuel pumps are not normally supplied with a factory reman, and are expected to be changed over from the old engine. What is the source of this fuel pump? If this is some aftermarket rebuilt engine, it's also possible they have mismatched the fuel pump. '68-70 & '71 pumps are different. A too long pushrod or incorrect rocker arm can damage the diaphragm immediately. If not a new pump, it's possible it's a rebuild itself and was not done right or properly installed. The blown carburator plug may indicate you've got too much fuel pressure and is a consequence of fuel pump problems.

That this is your 2nd fuel pump on different engines does not impy there's some "design defect." The same pump was used on millions of engines with little trouble and many have well over 100,000 miles on them. I've got a 1500cc engine still going strong in its 32nd year at nearly 160K on the original pump. The diaphragm will eventually wear out and moving parts can wear but that does not mean they are "defective."

Again, what's your source? Factory new or some used/rebuilt? Has the pushrod been checked? Stroke adjusted? What is your confidence the "new" engine has the correct distributor drive shaft for actuating the pushrod? Does it have the correct intermediate flange -- one that is incorrect in size has the effect of changing the pushrod length. On the '71, the pump cannot be rebuilt and can only be disassembled enough to clean the filter. Have you got the right pump? All of these are described in the Bentley, Section 3-4, which includes a troubleshooting chart in Table a.

Obviously, if the pump is not working properly and leaking, it will cause running problems in addition to those caused by lubrication deficiencies with the diluted oil.

The '72 was a completely different engine design (1700cc) and pumps are not interchangeable.

I can sympathize with having additional problems surface with a new engine, but that is fairly common because the parts transferred are often as old or worn as the engine that required replacement. Just fixing one item only moves reliability to the next weakest link. You will see a number of posts elsewhere on the site regarding suggestions for checking & replacing other items at the same time as a replacement engine to prevent just what your are going through. The only cure is to do it right the first time with quality parts, including replacing/overhauling all of the wear parts together.

That is also a reason for the oft-recommended "factory reman" route as it comes with a VW warranty that covers parts, labor and consequential damage so, for instance, if a new VW fuel pump had been installed with the engine, the whole thing would have been covered.

josh Junior Member # 457 posted 01-04-2001 11:19 PM

Thanks for the advice Capt. It was a factory reman from the mexico plant but I bought it through a local shop and had them put it in. The fuel pump as well as all the other parts were new(alt carbs manifolds). It had sat though for about six months because the original person couldnt pay the bill so I bought it as an Assembly and had them stick it in. It is kind of an odd arrangement. It has an alternator, but it is a generator style pump. after looking in the filter I think the debris from the Gas tank chowdered the pump, which would explain why it chowdered two in less than 1000 miles. My westy sat without running for atleast two years that I know of before I bought it. The filter as well is between the pump and carb. I was thinking about relocating it between the pump and the tank until I can get the tank flushed and keeping it cleaned out. How exactly do you flush a tank anyway? I know you are supposed to get a prep kit but exactly how does this work?

Thanks for the reply.

Oil Drain Plug

cremmart Junior Member # 591 posted 03-01-2001 04:42 PM

My 85 Westy is leaking oil at the drain plug. From my understanding, their are three possible solutions to fixing this leak: 1) Use a self tapping drain plug, 2) Tap/rethread the engine block threads, 3) Insert some piece that is then threaded to match the previous drain plug size. From what I've been told (I'm a little leery of mechanics at this point in time) the first option (self tapping plugs) is not a good solution because each time you change the plug it must be the next bigger size. The second option (tap/rethread) is possible at .5 hours labor and the last option is a 1 hour labor cost.

Any recommendations or other options that exist would be greatly appreciated.

Connie Emmart

nosliwmit Member # 267 posted 03-01-2001 07:23 PM

Make sure you use a new crush-ring or gasket every time you change your oil. Your drain plug should not be installed directly against the engine. This could definitely be the source of your leak, as oil can usually find a way to get past the plug threads and the interface of the plug and the engine.
And be wary of oil change shops (Q-Lube, Grease Monkey etc.). Always double-check their work if you use them. I've had enough bad experiences that I've gone back to changing my own oil. They frequently use the wrong oil, the wrong quantity of oil, don't tighten the drain plug sufficiently, over-tighten the drain plug etc. I know two people who have had their plugs cross-threaded resulting in expensive repairs and (in one case) an on-going leak (they can't oversize the hole anymore so he's stuck with a leak or replacing the drain pan).

Bill Scholz Junior Member # 39 posted 03-01-2001 08:09 PM

I'd echo nosliwmit's comment about replacing the washer at each oil change (the plug won't seal correctly without one and they're CHEAP), and add that you should make sure that you have the stock drain plug. When I bought my '85 Westy a few years back, a (no doubt well-meaning) previous owner had replaced the stock plug with some after market thing with an 18mm head. You can bet that sent the guys at the oil change places diving for their tool boxes (I change my own oil at home, but those places are a godsend on extended trips).

When I bought my second Vanagon a year or so later, it also had an aftermarket plug - this one had a 17mm head and an integral plastic washer, fit distressingly poorly, and dripped oil from day one (pointed out by the guy who sold me the bus, to his credit). Convinced that my case was stripped, I stopped at a local VW-specialist garage to ask if they could/would shoot a helicoil into the case for me. The guy said: "Go get a stock plug and a new washer - I bet that'll fix it."

I got two new plugs (14mm thread/13mm wrench size) and a lifetime supply of copper washers, put a stash in each glove box, and life has been wonderful since (at least in this regard).

So, I'll repeat this obviously sage advice: "Go get a stock plug and a new washer - I bet that'll fix it."

cremmart Junior Member # 591 posted 03-05-2001 11:46 AM

I would like to thank both of you for your great advice. I bought and put in a stock drain plug with a crush ring and no more oil leak.

Thanks a bunch!!

Connie Emmart

Replace Oil Pan?

Geoff Barnes Member # 744 posted 05-03-2001 04:50 AM

My driving will be predominantly in the Texas heat, then my trip down through Mexico, Central America, to a new home in Brazil. Lots of heat and humidity involved.
It's a '85 Westy which, at 200,000+ miles, breezed through State Inspection once I replaced a hollow Catalytic Converter. Everything seems tight and it runs amazingly well.

From reading the posts, I have decided that I can't go wrong running 20-50 (any caveats appreciated at this point) and I've seen an aftermarket Oil Sump which is about double the size of the OEM.

I was wondering if anyone had had experience with oversizing the oil pan. Larger pan = more oil = cooler oil overall.... would seem a logical addition.

Comments?

Capt. Mike Moderator Member # 11 posted 05-03-2001 04:26 PM

A 20W-50 would be an excellent choice in Texas summers. It might even go year around except in the cold panhandle.

An '85 doesn't have an oil pan so it would be a little hard to visualize an 'oversize' one. The only thing I can picture is some sort of extended pan that bolts up to the existing sump plate. If that's it, what hangs down becomes very high risk to getting damaged, dumping the oil, and lunching the whole engine.

I'm from that old school, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." I'd see if you have a temp problem first. I've run Montana summer 107°F, with A/C and max load and never broke the 260°F mark, well below the limits of a modern API SH 20W-50.

I suppose a lot depends on where you're at in Brazil. I've been up & down the coast from Recife to Santos and was suprised how cool it is -- compared to mid-Texas!

An '85 didn't have the oil cooler built in, so that might be an area to investigate before messing with the sump.

Frozen engine

rior Junior Member # 812 posted 05-16-2001 12:28 AM

Hello everyone: New to the list and new to watercooled VW’s. Have owned aircooleds for a long time (still have one).

My Vanagon is an 83 “full camper” Westy and was a one-owner vehicle. I love it but would
love it more if I could drive it…. So: Here are my questions, maybe some of you could help me out.

1) I believe my van has a 1.9 engine. How can I be sure it is 1.9 and not 2.1?

2) The engine is locked up. It was rebuilt just a few (2-3) thousand miles ago. It has new AMC heads and the block and all accessories appear to be in excellent condition. I removed the rocker shafts to see if a valve might have obviously dropped but all valves appear to be seating correctly. There is oil and water where they should be. The engine is quite locked up (can’t turn it by hand or starter).

I don’t have lots of $ to spend on this, and would like to re-use the new heads etc. Is it practical to consider rebuilding the short block myself? By the way, are the cylinders removable like aircooled or integral to the block?Is a spun rod bearing a common failure mode of the internals on the 1.9? Would this render the crank/case un-rebuildable?

3)Cut -- no parts wanted posts allowed in Message Boards; use the Classified section.

4) One person wants to sell me a running 2.1 but it is out of an auto trans van.
Would my flywheel/ pressure plate/clutch bolt up to this? Are these engines “zero-balanced” such that the flywheel and reciprocating parts form part of the counterbalance, therefore could casue a problem if I used my 1.9 flywheel etc on a 2.1? What I’m getting at is I don’t want a harmonic imbalance problem after getting the thing back together…

5) Another option is a used, unknown condition 2.1 that I have been offered. It is cheap, turns, but condition unknown (was from a burned-up bus). What is required to change to 2.1? Will my accessories (F.I, specifically) work?

6)What is the downside to installaing 1.9 heads on a 2.1?

Whew! Thanks everyone. Sorry for so many questions. --io

Capt. Mike Moderator Member # 11 posted 05-16-2001 05:57 AM

You need to start by getting the Bentley shop manual and reading the Message Forum Guidelines. Then read all the postings and archives as many of your questions have already been answered or the subject posted elsewhere.

1. The Bentley shop manual gives the engine code for each year & model. Although no one can insure the replacement inner liners & pistons are correct, that the rebuilders used a non-factory head leads one to suspect they used other non-original parts. Having the Bentley at hand is a requirment for most of us to answer posts.

2. Pg. 13-43 shows the construction and which parts are replaceable (liners & pistons). There is no unusual history of bearings failures in the water-cooled Westies and I wouldn't presume any cause until the case is opened up. That it has only been 2-3 thousand miles indicates faulty procedure or sub-standard parts.

3. Cut. Do not post 'wanted ads' in the Message Forums; use the Classified section. See Message Forum Guidelines.

4-6. The subject of changing from 1.9 to 2.1 liter engines is covered elsewhere on this forum. There are also posts regarding A/T to M/T transmission changes in that forum. Again, read the Message Board Guidelines.

rior Junior Member # 812 posted 05-16-2001 09:48 PM

Mike:

Thanks for the tips. I will be more careful with postplacement in future postings.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>You need to start by getting the Bentley shop manual...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I have one on order but it will be at least a few days until it arrives. I have tried reading all the posts that I could. The archive links are non-functional (at least from my machine) but I would search them as well, if I could.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Although no one can insure the replacement inner liners & pistons are correct, that the rebuilders used a non-factory head leads one to suspect they used other non-original parts . . .<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree. And from what I have learned I think the 2.1 liners and pistons will slide in. Guess no true way to tell now apart from pulling a head (?)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>That it has only been 2-3 thousand miles indicates faulty procedure or sub-standard parts.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok.


4-6. The subject of changing from 1.9 to 2.1 liter engines is covered elsewhere on this forum. There are also posts regarding A/T to M/T transmission changes in that forum. Again, read the Message Board Guidelines.

I read the A/T to M/T change but that does not answer my question, since I wish to use my existing manual trans and all accessories with an '87 2.1, not convert my van from an auto to man or v/v.

My secific question is whether the 2.1 internals are balanced to the flywheel or not. Or,put another way, would a 2.1 longblock accept a 1.9 flywheel assembly without balance issues?

Thanks for your attention.

Capt. Mike Moderator Member # 11 posted 05-17-2001 07:16 AM

I don't follow my own advice about reading ALL of the posts and printing out those that apply as a supplement to the Bentley, but somewhere there is a post about going to the dealer and examining the parts fiche for the differences between an A/T and an M/T which would answer your question on parts compatibility.

I also seem to remember that from the crankshaft inward, there are no differences. I'm not even sure they used different flywheels & clutches between the 1.9s & 2.1s but that would quickly show up on the parts fiche. (Sorry, it's raining and I'm not going out to the shop in my PJ's to check mine.) 'Sides, you need to go make friends with your VW parts manager. Take him to lunch -- it'll reap rewards in the long run.

When you get your Bentley, you'll notice the repair procedures do not require rebalancing of complete assemblies. VW builds engines for the mass market so such extremes wouldn't make sense. The replacement flywheels are balanced for the one way they can be installed. Ditto cranks, etc. In a way, many engines that use harmonic balancers do so because the rest of the assembly is so poor they need it. VW's don't have such balancers.

When you read the Bentley and parts fiches, you'll see many things are sold in matched sets to hold specs within specific limits. Of course that precludes you'll use OE or OEM parts, not some cheap aftermarket stuff that doesn't match.

Hope that answers a little better.

rior Junior Member # 812 posted 05-19-2001 06:56 PM

Thanks Mike, that is a big help. Can't wait for my manual to arrive...

I have 90% decided to rebuild my original 1.9 rather than change to any other type...seems to be the most "right" thing to do.

We'll see once I get the case apart...

Thanks again.

Rio

Rod and Crank

limited Member # 297 posted 08-20-2000 10:24 PM

I'm doing a rebuild right now on a 2.0 Air Cooler. It blew piston no. 2 and no. 1 looks like it touched down on the exhaust valve. I plan to have the crank checked, but does anyone have any experience with the piston rods (ie: is it common for them to be bad in blow motors?)? Information greatly appreciated.

Limited

CGOTTS Member # 168 posted 08-22-2000 12:06 AM

Having an engine experience with some of the items you mentioned can put a real strain on things. Especially the rods - these items have always been a somewhat problem area. When I do rebuilds, I alway send my rods in for rebuild. Basically, they are checked & miked for straightness, both ends are checked and reworked to be round. I have new bushings installed and honed to fit the clearances of the piston wrist pin, and most of all, I have all rod end bearing cap bolts and nuts replaced with new. These have a tendency to stretch with time, and thus, a number of people replace engines before their time, due to the bolts coming apart. In your situation, if you are going to be into the engine, to have the crank checked, it would be really wise to have all rods rebuilt. Sometimes an ounce of prevention is well worth the pound of no problems. From the sounds of things, you will also want to get the head checked, maybe new valve guides and of course a couple of new pistons to boot. These engines are pretty decent and do hold up very well, but don't take to many shortcuts - it will just fail sooner than usual if not done properly. Hope this helps and good luck with your rebuild?

limited Member # 297 posted 08-22-2000 11:13 PM

Yes, that's exactly the information I was looking for. Thank you. I'm just about to bring the crank into the machine shop. As such I'll bring the rods in too. It ends up that no. 3 has the most slop out of all the piston rods. I'm also changing the camshaft and putting all new cylinders, pistons, rings, valves, valve guides, and valve seats in too.

Cold engine clunking

Greg Litzenberger Junior Member # 443 posted 10-23-2000 01:02 AM

When I first start my '83 water-cooled Westy when it has sat for a few days, it makes a small random clunking sound, just a small one,while idling, this lasts about as long as it takes for the engine oil to get circulated, I would say. If I rev it up a little it quits above about 1200rpms, but as soon as it goes back to idle you can hear it. It is just a small sound and does sound like it is coming from the engine. Just taking precautions. Other than that, the engine runs fine. Thanks-a-million, Greg.

Capt. Mike Moderator Member # 11 posted 10-23-2000 11:17 AM

I wouldn't call it "clunking" but hydraulic lifter engines have a habit of draining down when left idle for longer periods of time. This give the valve excess clearance and makes them "clatter" or "click" in a metallic rattle sound. As the engine warms and the lifters pump up, it disappears. It will stay gone while warm, and usually will not repeat even cold if it's just a short period between runs.

VW in your manuals mentions that it is OK if not to excess and goes away shortly. As it happens more often and with shorter idle times to cause it to repeat, it's time to consider lifter replacement. This can be done with the engine in the car, and is not particularly difficult. Consult the Bentley; it has a section devoted to hydraulic lifters.

Do read the posts on oils; the viscosity & quality of your oil can aggrevate this condition.

I hope that's it; heavy clunking could signal something far more serious.

Transferred from an email.

Thanks-a-million Capt. Mike.

I already know about the Hydraulic lifters and experience this already. This is more random and a little thunky sounding, not the regular tapping of lifters. Just very small thuds maybe every other second or maybe a couple per second, ex ... thunk ... thunk ................... thunk ........ thunk ... thunk ... thunk ............. thunk, but small and just at the very beginning of start up, maybe 15 secs. or so. Then after that it completely leaves. We sure do appreciate your dependable help. Thanks again,

Greg Litzenberger

OK, that elminates the hoped for obvious and leads to the less desireable more serious problems. You didn't give the mileage and other conditions of your engine, but the clue that the hydraulic lifters have been leaking down for some time is one -- you've probably got a lot of miles on this engine.

Worse case secenario, is that you may be getting early rod knock until the engine begins to get full lubrication. If you'll go to the '81 Westy Too Hot thread, it goes into oil pressure relief valve. When the engine is cold, and oil thick, the pressure relief valve is supposed to prevent the oil from going through the cooler, thus starving the bearings, and instead go direct. So one possibility is that relief valve is not working right and you're sending oil through the cooler, where it has trouble passing, and thus starving the bearings for a few seconds. Bad news -- leads to rapid wear & permanent damage.

Second possibility is you have reached the point where an overhaul is coming due. As bearings wear, it becomes even easier for the oil film to drain out. It takes that few seconds for everything to fill back up. An engine starts with only the oil film left over from the last run. This is why starts are considered the hardest of all on an engine.

There are, of course, other possiblities such as a sticking valve, a bad injector (pre-ignition & leakers can sound like a mechanical thunk) or certain exhaust leaks.

Invest in a mechanics' stethescope -- they're only a few buck at the auto discount stores -- and have the car jacked up on stands cold, so you can be underneath, listening when someone else starts it up. You might be able to isolate the area quicker.

One last thing, don't write off suspension. A shock can leak down and give that thunk rattle until it repumps. When resonated by the body, that little noise can be deceiving. I just replaced my front struts and you'd be surprised how loud the little shock air-pocket rattle was off the car.

Broken engine

peebee, Junior Member, 11-17-2000 04:54 PM

Have I got a broken valve, piston, piston rings or is it something else?

Symptoms: Loss of power, smoke from crankcase breather slight misfire sound.

What I already know: compression test revealed cyls. 1-3-4 @ 11 bar, cyl.2 @ 9 bar.

Since I had this engine supplied and fitted by Volksspares ( 1641cc, twinchoke webber, sump extention and twin quietpack, electronic ignition - yes, I know all all about Volkspares and 1641s now, but I'm trying to retrieve a bad situation), I've had plenty of probs. When it does work, it goes well. I'm lookong for a solution, before I finally give up a buy a new engine.

RSPV before I pull out ALL my hair in frustration. Thanks you all - PeeBee

Reply to your request for more info:
Model = 1976 Westy, originally 1585cc.
Fitted with 1641cc pistons/cyls, 2 years ago, plus new crank case, unleaded heads, reground crank, electronic ignition, freeflow headers and exhaust. Full restoration of bodywork carried out at same time.

Other test carried out:

Timing - ok, tappets - ok. I'm sure its an upper engine problem because of the compression differences and the crankcase pressure blowing oil fumes from the breather. If you need any further info, ask, OK? Thanks for your interest. - PeeBee

CGOTTS, Member, 11-21-2000 10:15 PM

The particular problem you are describing - loss of power, smoke coming from the oil breather, missing - could only mean that you have a broken piston ring or rings. Increase in crankcase pressure can only be due to the exhaust gas blowing by the piston rings and pressurizing the crankcase. I do not suspect it to be a bad valve, or guide - you should be able to see excessive movement when turning it over (keep in mind the + wire on the coil is removed while doing this). I also don't suspect it to be a bad engine - but it does look like you will need to be removing the head and cylinder with the lowest compression ratio. Hope this helps and good luck.

[ 07-07-2001: Message edited by: Capt. Mike ]

[Capt. Mike]

Transferred from another post to consolidate same topic.

Gas in Oil

Morgan101 Junior Member # 14 posted 10-10-2001 11:59 PM

I have an '87 Westi with about 145000 miles. I recently had the oil tested, all metals are normal but it shows about 3.5% fuel in the oil after only 1000 miles. Any help with how that fuel is getting in the oil would be appreciated.

[Capt. Mike]

As an '87, you don't have the mechanical fuel pump discussed above; yours is electric. Therefore your source of fuel in the oil is most likely a fuel injection problem, such as a leaking injector. Fuel injection problems have their own forum under the Electrical group.

[Capt. Mike]

Transferred to consolidate same topic.

Crankshaft Freeplay

KenS Junior Member # 1852 posted 02-17-2002 11:10 AM

Hope I am posting this in the right place, I never seem to get this right.

I was having clutch problems in my 84 Westfalia, so removed the transmission to find out the crankshaft pilot bearing was hatched. While replacing it I have found that the crankshaft endplay is quite a bit more than the 0.15mm limit suggested by Bentley (13.57). I don't have a guage but would suggest it is 1.5mm. In the book they check end play with the flywheel still on the vehicle, I noticed it and crudely measured it with it off but that should not matter should it? If the freeplay is that much more than the limit does that mean that I should look into bigger things or just shim it up like the book says? Suggestions?

Thanks,

Ken

[Capt. Mike]

No & Yes. First, without the proper gauge and done in the correct manner (with flywheel on), perceptions and estimates can be way off. The gauge is nothing exotic, just an ordinary run-out gage so you don't need the special VW 387 model. Even a magnetic base one will work, just bolt a plate to the case studs.

Then, if it's still out, do correct shimming per Bentley 13.40 or 13.57 as the case requires.

Excess endplay will accelerate wear on many areas, including the thrust bearing and seals. It also increases stress on the other internal parts.

[Capt. Mike]

Transferred to consolidate same topic.

Crankcase repair

dpender Member # 759 posted 04-06-2002 02:35 PM

I am in the process of a complete rebuild of an air cooled Type I engine. I took the case to a machine shop to have it align bored. The machine shop called back and said one of the bars supporting the crank was "collapsed" but repairable.

I have not heard of this happening before but it sounds plausible.....if the main bearings overheated I guess they can warp the part of the case.

Have any of you had this experience? I was thinking of taking it to another machine shop for a second opinion or wondering if its time to get a new case. The machine shop says its reparable, but we haven't had a chance to discuss what is involved in the repair.

FYI, the bearings were pretty well worn.

[Capt. Mike]

Transferred to consolidate same topic.

Stripped Oil Drain Plugs

tabanjo68 Junior Member # 4014 posted 04-20-2002 08:58 PM

My oil drain plug is leaking and I can't get it any tigher, help! How it happened...

Well, just last week came home with my new '78 Westy. Because it was leaking from the oil strainer and the previous owner had replacement gaskets in the glove box, I thought it was time to put some new oil in too. The drain plug was ridiculously tight but finally budged and came out, however it would not come out by hand, had to use ratchet the entire way. I went along and replaced the gasket set on the strainer and all was fine, however the oil drain plug would thread in easily but would not bottom out(tighten securely). Filled it with oil anyways to see how tight it really was, and it appears to be leaking somewhat. My concern is that one of the previous owners at one time either over tightened it or used locktite to fix it in(why it was so tight). I also noticed that it was a 22mm bolt, which seemed big to me, I thought that the bolt was a 21mm, so quite possibly it was stripped earlier and then replaced with a larger bolt. Anyways, what are my options to fix this for now and for the future.

Thanks,

Steve