Starter and starter solenoid

[ronwolffjr]

Hello everyone, hoping someone can lend a little expertise here:

I have a 1976 Westy, which is on it's second starter. It has always had a 'hot start' problem, and I did add a 'hot start' bypass relay.

Question: Can I place an automatic bus/bug (72-79) starter on my M/T Westy?

It seems to be stronger.

I tried this afternoon to put one on. The starter activates, but does not engage with the flywheel.

Can someone help me with this?

If not, any recommendations where I can get a decent starter? (not those little Bosch things they now sell -- they really stink in my opinion)



Thanks!

[icarus]

I too have an intermittent starter problem. My problem is that it is so rare, I haven't bothered to fix it. (I carry a small crowbar to tap it with when it doesn't work) Really no problem, except when you stall in traffic, or at U.S customs! (not so cool to have to roll under the car under the watchful eyes of "homeland security")

So my wife says, "have you fixed the starter yet?" with the "please fix it" in her voice. The question is, in a 86 syncro I have heard that it is a major pain to replace. Truly what is involved, and can it be done rolling around on the shop floor, or am I better off biting the bullet and having the shop do it?

Icarus

PS. I have considered adding an additional relay as a stop gap, but it seems more trouble than just doing it right. Any thoughts?

[Moe]

GoWesty sells a starter which they claim solves this no-start problem. In their latest catalog, they write that when Bosch rebuilds their starters, they receive only "new brushes, bushings, and maybe an occasional stator or solenoid" (p.118). They claim that their solution is to replace the starter with a new one of different design due to the fact that new Bosch starters are NLA and rebuilt starters will have old wiring that subsequently will cause the no-start problem all over again. Haven't checked to see if new Bosch starters are still available but this may be one option that might be worth looking into. I hope this helps.

[icarus]

Thanks for the reply. The GoWesty gear reduction started is a non-starter for a syncro (pun intended) It won't fit 'cause of the differential lock.

My real (or imagined) problem is just the headache of doing the syncro starter, blaaa!

Icarus

[Capt. Mike]

I'm not getting into aftermarket conversions -- Guideline #7. Go to your dealer, Guideline #8, and ask if a new starter is available. Then you can decide if the rumors have any merit. I also don't buy that a factory reman 'only' gets new brushes, bushings and an occassional solenoid. Unless the poster has been inside Bosch's reman facility . . .! VW's factory reman standard, and I'm sure Bosch's, is to change everything that is NOT to new specs. That sounds more like a rebuild shop, not factory reman facility.

Bentley section 27.13a discusses removing the Syncro differential lock prior to replacing a starter. It's NOT that difficult if you follow the instructions. Two notes I have in my shop manual: Under figure 27-592, I have the note that "from '89 on, the nuts go on the reverse side of the bracket instead of as shown." Under figure 34-1678, I have a note "In = lock, easier access to pin." I then have the last two steps reversed, i.e. -- with bolt B withdrawn as far as possible, give servo a slight upward twist and remove from bracket enough to clear pin., then push back protective sleeve and drive out roll pin.

We had more trouble needing two persons to get that one upper bolt out than with the servo. It's tight and working blind, but removing the nut inside the engine compartment was easier.

[icarus]

Mike,

Bentley speaks about removing the right drive line. Do you do this or try to work around it?

Icarus

[Capt. Mike]

Disconnecting the inner CV at the tranny flange is so easy, I do it. I'll slip a food storage bag over the end and secure with a wire-tie. The grease stays in, not all over you, no dirt gets in, and you can get the CV almost back into position and lined up before you cut and tear the bag clear, removing the bag & wire tie at your convenience after you've got the first 2 bolts in. I use an air speed rachet to run the bolts down so it's zip-zip almost like the NASCAR tire changers. Torqueing is the only pain because you have to have someone release and reset the handbrake once or twice as you work around the set of bolts.

Suggest new schnorr washers, as always.

It's the outer CV in the trailing arm that's such a pain and subject to contamination.

[gixxer]

Hi guys,

This is my 3rd attempt to post my question. for some reason i cant post a new question so i will 'attempt' to add it to this similar post

To make a long story short, my mom has an 89 Westfalia 4 speed with 120000kms on it.

It has been in the garage for about 2.5 years. I had to put a new battery in it about a year ago.

I used to start it up and drive it every few months to keep things running, but for the past few months now it hasn’t wanted to start.

I have tried tapping the solenoid and I have checked all the fuses and relays, but nothing happens. Actually when I turn the key I do hear the fuel pump but nothing else.

Can some one give me an idea of what I should be checking on this van? Is there a common thing to look for? What is involved in R+R the starter, and how would I check it to see if that is what it is?

Thanks for your help

Jason

[icarus]

As Capt. Mike would say, "Have you read the guidelines, do you have a copy of the Bentley manual etc"

A couple of things to look for, but most importantly, avoid the "ready, fire, aim" syndrome.

Do you have a fully charged battery? Have you load tested it? What happens when you turn the key with the lights on? Do they get dim or just stay there burning bright? Do you hear any clicking? Have you checked the "Heavy" wiring from the battery to the starter, especialy the grounds? Do other electrical devices work, ie fans, radio etc? What happens to them when yo turn the key on?

My point is that it is far too simple to ask "What should I look for?", until you know what not to look for so to speak. Electrical problems can be a buggaboo, but if you read the Bentley, and follow some simple test methods, you can and will track down the problem. Just don't go taking the starter apart just 'cause you think it may be bad.

Icarus

PS Now on to my own electrical gremlin,,, My battery looses voltage after sevreal days and I haven't figured out it it is a load that I don't know of, or just a tired battery. Time for a load test.

[Capt. Mike]

Well put. I sent gixxer TWO emails regarding the improper posts, why cut, and where to repost including refering him to the "Disappearing Posts" and "Guidelines" links.

Since I didn't see any results of checking starter problems per the Bentley troubleshooting chart; any indication the suggestions in this or the battery topics had been done; or any checks of the electrical distribtuion topic beyond the fuses, there is no place to begin. Very much what's covered by Guideline #3.